Overcoming the sexuality barrier

I'll be the first to admit I still have plenty to learn about dating Korean women. There's a lot of socio-religious programming to overcome, on top of their cultural timidity. Once we're having relations everything's gravy, but getting there... getting there's the trick.

One of the major hurdles I face with every new k-girl I take on a date is crossing the sexuality barrier. It's still an area that I'm feeling out and have had some minor successes with. IME a lot of what's worked for me is talking about sex in a circular fashion-- if I can get them thinking about sex and me at the same time then I'm in good shape. :-)

For example, with one of the girls I'm currently dating (but have not yet slept with; that's in the mail, though) I lead the conversation towards sex and relationships innocently enough: I asked her what the korean word for "kiss" is (it's "kiss," aptly enough), which lead to a conversation about dirty words in English and in Korean (she was really adamant about NOT teaching me the really dirty words).

That conversation got me thinking about kissing her, so I told her I was thinking of kissing her (not that I would kiss her RIGHT THEN, just that I was thinking about it). She got SUPER shy/self-conscious at that point, so I switched topics to something lighter.

Later on while dropping her off at her place the mood felt right in our parting conversation, so I asked if she wanted to kiss me goodbye. She didn't say "no," she just kind of sat there, so I slowly lead her into a little makeout session in the darkness of my car. I stopped it after a couple of minutes because logistics weren't right (busy work week) and let her go on her merry way.

Dollars to donuts we're probably going to hook up on date numero tres if I can lock down the logistics so we have privacy. Maybe she'll teach me some dirty Korean words then. :-D

...and for those that are counting, we've known each other for a grand total of 4 hours now. Not that it matters THAT much, but the bean counters like that kind of info. ;-)

I'm curious to hear what you've found works best for you. Please post your stories in the comments!

Asian people: by the numbers

I'm sure some of you have heard this concept discussed in other places, but it bears repeating for those that are still oblivious to it.

There are three kinds of Asian people:

• v1.0: The "Fresh Off the Boat"-ers, aka "Fobs"
• v1.5: Those born & raised in an Asian country but emigrated to the US later in life
  
• v2.0: Those born and raised in the US with a healthy exposure to Western culture and values; this encompasses a wide range of "Degrees of Not-Asian-ness" from Abercrombie-wearing bananas to Hip-Hop-influenced "blasians"
  

In terms of hitting on Asian girls my experience has shown that any given girl will react in a VASTLY different manner based on:

• Your ethnicity (and if applicable, what "version" of Asian you are)
  
• The environment
• Friends they have in their immediate vicinity

A general rule of thumb that I follow when hitting on Asian girls is to assume they're v1.0 and treat the situation with kid gloves until I'm proven wrong.

In the daytime I usually test the waters with something innocuous, like commenting on something they're wearing or something they're buying. Other times, when I get that "whoah" feeling I'll approach them directly but with a soft edge; the last thing I want to do is freak them out by coming on too strong (trust me, I've done this enough times to learn to dial down the strong sexual vibe initially).

At night, well... that depends on the venue. One of the places I love to hate going to is J-Lounge in Downtown LA. It's a beautiful bar/restaurant but the social shields with the groups of Asians that go here are up full blast here UNLESS it happens to be a mixed crowd that night (which is rare). The only times I've had some measure of success here (phone #'s, make-outs, etc) have involved either non-Asians or v2.0 K-girls. I've also noticed that if you're Not-Asian (white, black, latino) being more direct with your intentions is accepted more readily (although you still have an uphill battle with breaking into their social circle). If you're Asian (like me), no matter what version you are, you are facing a really tough social interaction. Period. Just accept this fact ahead of time and don't get mad/frustrated if you don't get anywhere with Asian girls in a nightclub.

So what's a man to do to get an edge?

• Be a nice guy (but not The Nice Guy) and soften your edge a bit. Asian girls scare easily, even v2.0 ones
• Learn a couple of words of their language. You'd be surprised how knowing how far saying "You're cute" in Korean (Ee' pu da, in case you were curious), Japanese and/or Chinese can take you. Just apologize profusely for mangling their language ahead of time and you'll be fine

What are your experiences hitting on Asian girls? How right or wrong am I?

Dusting off this blog

Real quickly (because I'm at work)--

I'm dusting off this blog to start recording my experiences dating and interacting with Korean women.

I used to approach this from a very "Game" based perspective, which I've since outgrown. From here on in my posts will be worded in terms any man can understand because, ultimately, "knowing how to k-close an HB9 by spiking her BT until she gives you DDB" is not as cool or fulfilling as you think it is; I'd much rather have a fun evening being Present with a cute Korean girl that makes me smile. I hope the same is true for you. :-)

I'll be posting some recent thoughts later this week.

Direct Sexual Game: My Two Cents

On one of the message boards I frequent a question of how to develop "Direct Sexual" game came up. Now personally I've been paring down elements of what I do in relation to girls, discarding what doesn't work and keeping what does. My $0.02 from that discussion board follows:

My current style is very playful indirect and I want to try out a very sexual direct style.

The Sexual BT seems lacking. We may makeout, but I don't often feel the "I want to take it back to your place" vibe.

What's your end goal for any given interaction? Is it the club makeout? Or is it to take a girl home? The two goals are mutually exclusive, IME.

Here's another angle to look at things: How slutty are you making the girl look in front of her friends? That's a more direct correlation to whether you'll be taking her home that night. If you're having sloppy makeout sessions in the middle of her group I can almost guarantee you won't be taking her home.

After an interaction and exchange of contact information, they come out for a Day 2 because I hype it up like crazy and they know they will have a good time with me. They come back to my place and sex happens with no LMR. If not on the Day 2, then usually by Day 3.

It feels like they say to themselves, "It just happened," instead of "I couldn't wait to fuck him."

I don't see where the problem lies here. You should be removing all responsibility for the sex from their shoulders anyways. "Plausible deniability" and all that, at least on the surface. It's easier for girls to explain to their girlfriends that "it just happened," so just run with it.

Girls know EXACTLY what they're doing when they enter your house, when they ALLOW you to use their bathroom "real quick", when they join you "just for a quick drink." They're not stupid, BUT they DO need to still "save face" to prevent being branded with the Scarlet Letter.

If you have found experiences or successes with a Sexual Direct style, would you give me some pointers?

Anything from openers, lines/routines, body language, tonality, things to do on Day 2's, conversation styles, mindset, and/or anything else you feel is relevant is appreciated. I'm open to everything and am all ears.

IMO, "Sexual Direct" is where everyone's game should be evolving towards. There are no "openers" or routines, you simply "Are."

The ingredients, IME:

1. ROCK-SOLID Inner Game
2. Outcome Independence (which is tied in to Inner Game)
3. SOLID Body Language (which includes Eye Contact and vocal tonality)
4. Smooth, ninja-like kinoescalation
5. Social savvy

IME you reach this state through experience, it's not something that's taught, per se. Some notes, in no particular order:

-It's a very efficient mode to operate from. You're not necessarily looking for anything on a given night, but if opportunities present themselves you act on them. Otherwise you're out having fun on your terms.

-When you get enough "IOIs," aka she's invested in your interaction, you kinoescalate smoothly. Now by smoothly I mean you do it out of the line-of-sight of her social circle, and you do it assertively but NOT aggressively. There's also an element of 2 steps forward/1 step back and pull/push. Everything is geared towards making her feel comfortable with you and PROTECTING HER FROM THE JUDGMENT OF HER FRIENDS.

-You figure out VERY QUICKLY if a girl is into you. I do this by testing her hands. THE HANDS NEVER LIE. EVER. If she's not in to me I just cut the interaction and move on. Saves me precious minutes of my life.

-If she's playing with my hands, IT'S ON. All I do from there is "lean back" psychologically and act like she's my girlfriend. As long as I remain outcome independent, "be cool" and lead the interaction then sex is a foregone conclusion in my mind, so I have nothing to stress about.

-My "game" nowadays is geared heavily towards Kino and Body Language. My Attraction stuff is just me being my charming, witty Self (banter, roleplay, misinterpretation, just "being fun"). I don't "try". My Rapport is super-duper dry and "deep" enough to ground me as a real person; it's the most boring shit you'll ever hear.

-An important note: My kino often runs counter to what I say, in a way (that good 'ol "pull/push" element again). For example I might tell a girl we'd TOTALLY not get along, but give her a warm hug at the same time (push her away with words, pull her in with kino). Another example might be my dry-ass Rapport, which I couple with more sensual kino (logical info vs. emotional connection, in a way).

A girl can have a flag over her head saying, "Lets bone tonight," and I wouldn't know. I'm sometimes oblivious to it. My first SNL happened when the girl said, "I live down the street. Come over. We'll grab a drink." As obvious as it sounds to you, I didn't realize we were going to go at it until she said, "Lets go to bed and pulled me by the hand into her room."

Don't worry you're not alone in your obliviousness. There are times even now when I don't "get it" in the moment, but upon reflection I *TOTALLY* missed the "go" signal.

I think this is where learning more about inference and wordplay helps. I'd like to think I'm somewhat well-read and have a good grasp of dry wit, double entendres and the like. It translates well to understanding how girls try to communicate, because the real message lies below the surface of the words she presents, usually.

Is there any compliance type testing you do with her? (Like that random routine, "Let me see your hands. Palms down." You lift up with her and on the way down, if she follows your hands, she's compliant. If not, she isn't.)

Or is it more of subtly playing with her hands and having her play back while you are interacting?

I used to do contrived hand tests like high-fives and palm reading. They served their purpose back then but now when I look back they're a bit... awkward.

I just gently grab her hand while talking about whatever. This is usually a couple of minutes into the interaction and I have an inkling that she might be into me. It's quick and off to the side of our bodies. I just grab and see what she does. If she leaves her hand there for a bit I'll squeeze it lightly to see what she does. Whatever reaction I get I let go and either escalate the interaction or end it.

XXXXX and XXXXX have seen me do it in-field, it doesn't look like anything special but it's a treasure-trove of information for me.

I don't make a big deal about it because it isn't a big deal. It's just communication on a more primal level.

What kinds of roleplay do you run with her? Is it subtly sexual like, "I'm prince charming and you're the naughty little princess," or blatantly sexual like, "I am the dungeon master and you're my obedient dungeoness in training." (I just made those up)

To be honest I don't roleplay THAT much because I suck at it. :-\ However I make up for this deficiency with my uber-1337 banter steez. B-)

Sometimes the situations to roleplay will make themselves apparent and I'll run with it but I don't force it, personally.

Would you clarify what you mean by "Dry-ass Rapport" and "logical info vs. emotional connection?"

Dry-ass Rapport
Well, you know how EVERY major PUA out there says to NOT ask The Boring Questions (aka, "Where are you from", "What do you do", "What are your hobbies")? I fly in the face of convention and ask that shit in Rapport. It's "not supposed to work" but I make that shit work because my kino is the real conversation, anyways; my words just ground me as a real person instead of as a Player. That way when she talks to her girlfriends later she can say, "Oh, he's a good guy. He does XYZ in Los Angeles. He used to live in ABC. His parents are here, blah blah."

logical info vs. emotional connection
That ties into the above, and really is about the concept of Contrast. I forget who taught me this but being able to convey contrasting (not conflicting, subtle distinction) information simultaneously is good. I extend this idea into my communication of logical information (Who I am, what I do) with emotional connection (playing with her hands, sensual kino on her back, kissing, etc).

It's a deeper topic that wiser minds than I can explain in greater detail.

For the direct sexual style, is it still best to set the venue bounce as, "Come over to check out some pictures at my place," or if I say, "You're coming over tonight. Lets go," - is that as, or more, effective?

You mean directly from the club to your pad? That can work. Personally I like to take them to get some food first. It's good for a number of reasons, IMO:

-EAT FOOD (duh!)
-Venue change
-Safe environment for them that isn't "the club" to be social in
-Become integrated with her group ("We" went out for food after the club)
-Quieter, "normal" environment to get more Rapport and kinoescalation in (under the table stuff, so hot)
-In my mind it's more reasonable to bounce a girl from a restaurant. Why? I dunno.

Velvet Room

Time/Date
Saturday, 05/03/08, 10:30pm - 2:00am

Location
Velvet Room, K-Town

Logistics
Rolling with some new Korean friends

The shizzle that went bizzle
Asian girls, by and large, are socially inept. God bless 'em and all that, but man, I've had better connections with a wall than I've gotten with the girls tonight...

I was invited out by some new Korean friends I made to a booking club here in Koreatown called Velvet Room. Now, for those of you that aren't familiar with booking clubs, this is how they work:

In Korean culture it's more "proper" to be introduced by a stranger to someone else than to cold approach and booking clubs exemplify this to a horrific degree. The idea is that you rent a table or booth for the evening and your waiter can "book" girls to come to your table, drink your alcohol, eat your decorate fruit platter, and/or talk with you. Now, by "book" I mean forcibly drag girls that aren't necessarily willing to your table of dudes. The waiters earn tips for the girls that they book for you-- more traffic = more money for him/her.

TOTALLY not my style. :-\

Now this particular booking club was actually pretty fly-- the interior is large and it's FULL of tables and booths. There's a large dance floor in the middle, private rooms in the back, and a smoking patio on the side.

The environment is LOUD. Imagine the loudest club you've ever been to, then pump it up another 15% in decibel-levels. As you can imagine this makes any verbal game a near impossibility, never mind the potential language barriers.

The girls are HOT. I know many of you may think that Asian girls have no ass and no boobs, but one look at the talent here and it'd prove you wrong VERY quickly. All the girls are dressed to the 9's and tend to travel in packs for safety.

Now, in terms of my results, here's how it went down for me:

0 for 25 for the evening, with only ONE girl even potentially hooking (but it was at the end of the night and she was there with some dudes and her girl friends waiting for their cars).

Did I mention that Asian girls are socially inept? :-\

Direct Game didn't pan out for me because of the environment-- all the waiters manhandle the girls there, so things like opening with kino or going Direct are an uphill battle because the girls will just lump you into the "drunk asshole" category fairly quickly.

Situational stuff didn't pan out either-- even in the smoking patio where I could actually talk only two girls were receptive and those shut down with the quickness once their friends got involved. Every other set was cooooold. Frigid. Even when I came in friendly, I got shut down faster than a... a... I don't even have a word for it. Frustration City.

The only avenue that I think can bear any fruit in this environment--

Dance Floor Game.

The girls seemed more receptive on the dance floor when I went to shake my groove thing but I had to tend to my friends more often than not which dragged me off the floor. I'm willing to explore this angle more for this environment since all my other usual tactics bore no fruit.

If you want to meet Asian girls at night, I DO NOT recommend this type of venue. Everything is working against you. The only reason I'd go back is to explore Dance Floor Game and see what that bears.

What I did good
I walked out of dead/dying sets very quickly. When girls copped attitude I just shut down the interaction and went on to the next group. I stretched my dancing muscles a bit and learned a little more about just not giving a fuck on the dance floor.

I made some new connections with Korean guys that are familiar with K-Town. We'll see how those pan out.

What I could've done better
Danced more?

Extra comments
I gotta say I'm a little bit more disillusioned about Asian girls now after this night. A SHIT-TON of work for little return in this environment and just in general. I personally don't have the time nor inclination to work the social circle angle.

Time to start checking out more racially-diverse environments.

Openers and Closure

This day started pretty shitty.

I had to attend to work-related stuff pretty much from morning 'til early evening and it didn't put me in my Happy Place. After getting a massage (a legitimate one, you pervs) and relaxing in the apartment for a hot second I was idling at neutral, which was an improvement. ch0ng0 rolled through in the early evening and we went to grub at Hodori before starting out on the evening's adventures with the rest of the crew.

The original plan had us looking for some fun times in K-Town, but unfortunately those fun times come with a $$$ pricetag that none of us were willing to pay. As fate should have it the suggestion of J Lounge was agreeable to most everyone so that is where the Universe directed us.

After working some doorman magic (credit to D for the tips on how to get in without hassle) we slide in. Now it turns out this evening had a strong theme of openers and closure, which I'll explain thusly:

Openers
I'm not much of one for routine monkeying, but I do have some favorite lines that give me fodder to banter about. One of my favorite ones is pretty simple and works with savvy chicks:

ME: Hey, there you are! :-D

Ya, that's it. Impressive, I know. ;-)

The power lies in its simplicity and it opened one pair of girls like gangbusters. This pair of black girls that were staring at the huge TV projection on the wall of the building were fun, and I had ch0ng0 there to wing me.

I did my thing with the shorter of the two; there definitely was attraction on her part but I couldn't push things to a deeper level because she kept going on about her business (and the fact that I was a Web Dev and she needed one). Got the contact info, chatted a bit more, then bounced.

Closure
That girl from the prior post, M., showed up this particular evening as well with her roommate and other friends. She actually greeted me while I was standing at the bar waiting for drinks, but her hug was distant and polite. Hrrmm. Worthy of investigation, considering that she had been basically unresponsive to my texts earlier in the week.

Fast-forward the evening to later and I run into her group in the outdoor lounge area. Talk with her and come to find out she had just broken up with her BF this past week, which explained A LOT of the minor details I'd noticed in our prior encounter.

Fast-forward to the end of the evening. I run into her leaving J Lounge and ask her what she's up to this week, to which she says, "Right now is not a good time." Understandable, given the information I'd just gleaned, so I told her that once that drama stabilizes itself to call me, after which I bid her adieu. About all that can be done and still leave the window open for future encounters.

What you did well
My kinoescalation was on-point tonight.

My banter was en fuego.

I kept my cool with M., even in light of the breaking-up information. That's the only way to play that situation, even though it was difficult to remain outcome independent.

What you did wrong and could have done better
With the black chick I should've insta-dated sooner. There was a lull about 15 minutes into the conversation where I was trying to move her to a couch, but right as I was suggesting it her friend jumped in about having to get back to their friends.

Extra Comments
I thought this was classy of M.: While meeting her friends I finally got introduced to her roommate the weed-smoker. When her roommate asked if I was the same J____ that almost schtupt'd her last week M. said, "No that was a different J____".

A pleasant evening at J Lounge

After a full day of sorting receipts and old paperwork in my apartment I needed to get out and meet women. Sent out the bat-signal and linked up with D and his friends at J Lounge in Downtown LA.

This particular evening J Lounge was a touch on the lightly populated side but nothing I couldn't work with. The real challenge of the evening lay in the fact that it was 95% Asians in mostly large birthday groups, which means lots of light social hopping, mostly talking to the guys of the groups to see if something hooks.†

During the course of the evening in the outdoor patio I was using that OTHER universal opener, "Do you have a light?" If you're a smoker (which I am, from time to time) it'll work for you, especially if you don't really care who you get a light from. At one point I asked for a light from this girl that had been talking to D and his friends earlier in the evening and we hit it off conversationally. I wasn't "running game" or trying anything, really, I was just being my lovable, charming self. B-) Eventually her two friends drag her off inside J Lounge, so I wrote that one off as just a pleasant conversation.

Fast-forward 30 minutes: I was chatting up this Asian couple near one of the heat lamps when, out of the blue, the chick from the paragraph above comes up and tells the couple, "He's such a cool guy!" and gives me a hug.

Huh. Okay, I can run with this. :-) She was cute enough so I wanted to see where this led.

The girl (let's call her M.) is a bit quirky-- she's Korean but adopted by Caucasian parents, so the conversation was like talking with a nerdy white girl (which I can dig). She qualified herself A LOT, and I just kind of led the conversation and let her fill in the gaps, busted on her with banter from time to time and rewarded her with kino when appropriate. She eventually re-introduced me to her friends, who apparently were talking to this trio of Asian guys. I wasn't sure what the relationship was so I played it cool and social, but sticking next to M. to ramp kino and talk with her.

Eventually the trio of guys wants to buy the other two girls shots (which turns into buying all of us shots. Yay free alcohol!). I lead M. by the hand up the stairs to the main bar and start hand-testing while walking through the dark bar. She reciprocated (finger-play is soooo hot), so at that point (in my brain) I knew taking things to an intimate level was a foregone conclusion, I just needed to (A) play it cool, (B) kinoescalate and (C) don't fuck up.

We get our shots, we hit the dance floor. M. is grindin' on me, and life is good-- until one of the trio fucks up with one of the other girls and ruins the vibe. Now, this whole time I'm trying to find a way to bounce the girls with me and ditch the trio (I'm sure they're nice guys, but they were fvcking with my mojo). Eventually I get the other two girls to agree to go get some food in K-Town and we lose the guys (or so I thought).

M. and I get to a restaurant in K-Town and wait for her two friends to show up. They eventually get there, but somehow the trio followed us here which makes for an awkward dining experience. One guy is trying way too hard to game one of the girls, and it makes me sad for the guy, because the girl is blatantly not interested. We get our grub on while the farce of a conversation continues in front of us, with M. feeding me spoonfuls of food now and again.

M. gets a bit of a tummy-ache from eating too much and she wants to bounce. A bit of a wrinkle, but that's OK because I was trying to remain as outcome-independent as possible, mentally. We bid her friends and the trio adieu and I drive her back to her place. When we get there I make the excuse of needing to use her bathroom and she agrees to it.

I make my way into a darkened apartment and from an adjacent room I hear her roommate ask if she picked up some weed. I quietly make my way past her roommate's room and into M.'s room, take a leak, and come out to an already-changed-for-bed M. She says I gotta go, and I verbally agree, and make out with her anyways. :-D In between bouts of making out I just talk about random stuff and set up a time for tomorrow to link up. I push things pretty far physically but eventually get a genuine "Stop," and so I do. I quietly make my way to her front door, get a little more sugar for daddy and then I'm out like Shout™.

†If you don't have experience dealing with Asian social circles, let me tell you that you pretty much HAVE to work the guys of the group first and get them to integrate you into their social circle. It eats up a lot of time and you're going to talk to a LOT of people that you don't necessarily want to meet but 'dems the breaks if you want to get to the Asian girls in these scenarios.